This Friday on the cusp of Transgender Awareness Week, we talk to Bok Goodall of Ms A London, an intimates brand designed for the Transfeminine community and her groundbreaking research in trying to create and establish a sizing system which would be available to other brands. Bok is determined to have a comprehensive sizing system in place before rolling the brand out and so far has funded the research and development herself.
So what is your background?
“I have always had a fashion background. I left college to start working for a designer when London was the most exciting place in the world for fashion – early 90’s. It was the best training and education I could have ever had, travelling the world and meeting amazing people.
I fell into lingerie by accident really more than 20 years ago. I was asked to design some underwear for a large American supplier and it went from there. I realised I loved it!
How did the brand start and when did you start working on it?
It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a really long time and in fact it almost became a joke every time I saw one of my oldest friends Winn Austin, I’d say I was going to make her some lingerie (I think she thought I was going to actually ‘make’ it and she wasn’t that interested to be honest!!) and we’d talk about doing something for the Trans community. At the end of 2019 I phoned her to say I was doing it, I took out a startup loan and then we went into lockdown!
Winn brings lived experience and a knowledge of what is needed and what works that is invaluable to the whole process. We were able to make my designs fit around very specific requirements and in 2020 started sampling a collection of solutions pieces that I’m very proud of.
Why the world of transgender underwear…?
Working in lingerie for so long I realised that there is a customer not being serviced – most brands have customers from the Transfeminine community whether they realise it or not! – and on the whole do little to cater to this customer.
When I looked at the lingerie that was available it seemed basic or highly fetishised and really felt like great, every day pieces were missing.
What is different about working in this sector?
I quickly realised that there is no sizing for this person, and so have been working for the last two years on taking measurements within the community to develop a sizing system. I don’t feel that I can launch a brand without having sizing in place, it would just be another brand that doesn’t fit right! So, I have put the brand on hold in order to be able to create sizing.
Lingerie is much more technical than clothing and although I’m not a technical designer (in any way) you do find yourself getting quite an in-depth knowledge of fit etc, and millimetres make a difference in lingerie! You can get away with much more in fashion!
A Typical Week…in your life
I don’t really have typical weeks! I work on freelance projects (so please get in touch if you need my particular skillset!!) and they take up most of the week.
I love working on special projects with Underlines Magazine which keeps me busy – especially at the moment when we’re organising the annual Stars Awards. I handle social media and special projects including all the illustrations and graphics.
Illustration, trends and design work take up most of the week, I love when I get a project that I can come up with a concept for and create a full story from concept to shop floor – including photoshoots and collateral like that.
Those Special Moments in your career
A few years ago I developed a concept for a US brand (Claudette) offering something that wasn’t available in the US at the time, I was very proud when the brand was bought by amazing boutiques and stores, and even more proud when it was in British Vogue’s Christmas issue two years running! And it makes me smile to see the colour palette which was very particular still acts as an influence.
Seeing Ms A London in Underlines and winning competitions with the brand in NY. Having the BBC interview us about the work we are doing with Ms A and why it’s important: all these moments are special to me.
If you were not working in this field, then what do you think you would have done instead?
I’d like to think I would have been a vet, but in reality I know that I wouldn’t as my short stint working at a vet’s when I was about 15 got me sacked for stealing a great dane – it’s a long story…
I would probably be a starving artist surrounded by dogs and fabulous shoes!
What is your greatest challenge?
Money! I won’t work on the brand until I have some sizing system in place. To date I have personally funded most of the research (we did a small round of raising funds a couple of years ago) and it is not cheap! I need help now getting this sizing over the line, pulling the date together to generate a system of sizing and also making samples to make sure the sizing works. To this end we have set up a gofundme to raise enough to get this finished. The sizing information will be available to brands wanting to create product for the community.
Money is the biggest challenge without doubt. It’s a pretty thankless task trying to raise the funds to do this especially when almost every email or contact goes unanswered! Time is tricky – I do everything myself at the moment and of course there are only so many hours in the day, so things are taking longer than I would like.
What do you read and whom do you follow in social media to keep ahead of trends?
The usual suspects – Vogue, Diet Prada, lingerie boutiques, photographers and art directors, I have to admit though my timeline seems to think I want to see a lot of Bull Terriers (I do, can’t walk past one without giving it a kiss!) Sphynx hairless cats (strangely I do, but I don’t know how my phone knows that!) and potatoes or chillies!
What do you hope to achieve?
I would like Ms A London to be a mainstream lingerie, swimwear and solutions brand that caters to the Transfeminine community offering beautiful well-fitted garments. It is more important that these are comfortable and offer safety and security to the wearer. It’s impossible to understand how difficult life is for someone waiting almost five years for a first appointment with a Gender Identity Clinic – I would hope I can help even in the smallest way by creating underwear that is gender affirming and allows for safer more comfortable social transition whilst waiting.
Next year will be about raising investment for Ms A London which I hope to achieve and get the brand moving.
Your proudest moment to date?
Trying the Ms A London samples on a few different bodies. Winn of course always looks incredible in the garments, and has her own specific feedback, but it made me proud when we worked with a few Trans women who each tried the garments on and gave positive feedback about how they made them feel.
Your biggest mistake, if there is one!
There’s more than one! I mean most of them I couldn’t say because I hope people have forgotten about them!
The one product you cannot live without?
That’s easy! Diet Coke!
Time out?
I seem to walk quite a lot. I used to swim every day but haven’t for a while – I need to get back to that!
I listen to lots of podcasts and spend hours walking round and laughing in the street or on the train! The one podcast I can listen to over and over is Off Menu – if you haven’t you should!
Pet Hate?
Yoga leggings – which seem so very popular at the moment!”
Model: Winn Austin Photographer: James Lightbown bg@bokgoodall.com
